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Post by danstrahleo on May 25, 2014 1:07:04 GMT
So I haven't managed to read through the rules yet? Anyone got some first Impressions yet of it all?
*Taken from my post lower down*
P19 - 6'' Squad coherency vertically for terrain P22 - Psychic Phase looks like the BIG change for the edition P26 - Nova powers auto hit fliers - don't know if this is a change or not but with most powers having Nova's in them this could be something to use P38 - Gone to Ground units Cannot fire overwatch (Again don't know if this is a change but seems good if you can cause pinning) P52 - Additional wounds caused by Instant Death count to combat resolution (Wonder if I was doing this wrong in 6th) P76 - Vehicles Explodes does S4 damage to people around the vehicle rather then the S3 (But it is harder to explode a vehicle) P84 - Jink changes are a big changer - Jink gives 4+ cover now as standard but forces you to Snap Shoot on the following turn P86 - Chariots - Complete revamp of the rules here and they now look usable! P102 - Excess Wounds caused in challenges are allocated to the squad P103 - A unit not involved in a challenge can place excess wounds caused to the squad onto the challenger - so no longer hiding in challenges!! P108 - Charging through difficult terrain is now a standard -2 inches P108 - Ruins give 4+ cover if your in them no LOS blocking needed now P110 - Buildings have hull points (And not that many) P122 - Battle Forge Armies get good bonuses of Secure Objectives & Reroll WL trait) P125 - Most Warlord Traits seem to be useful no real shockers in the lists P134 - Coring units are now pretty much anything thats not a zooming flier / MC - even claimed Fortifications count as scoring... P150 - New Maelstrom missions look interesting (Stopping the End of Game Obj Rush) P160 - Barrage can direct fie under its minimum ranges (Again not sure if this is new) P163 - D weapons changes looks like they can enter usual 40k battles without a huge unbalance P168 - Move through cover actually works for charges now!! P171 - Sky Fire & Interceptor now forces snap shots against ground targets P173 - Templates cause hits to troops embarked on Open Transports (This is scary for my Orks!) P180 - Grenades in combat can be used against - Vehciles, Gun Emplacements, Buildings & MC's (The list keeps getting bigger) P180 - Defense Grenades seem pretty good now negating bonus attacks
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Post by Elly on May 25, 2014 19:56:52 GMT
Mixed feelings, until ive played a few games out. Thinking daemons psychic phases will be nasty to deal with as i can generate lots of warp charge, and will have more dtw than my foe has casting pool. Think some things will play better though
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Post by griffster on May 25, 2014 21:46:11 GMT
One question will chaos be better
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Post by stuart on May 26, 2014 8:37:47 GMT
i actually like the improvements they have tydied up a few grey areas on sme of the rules they have explianed quite well they have tweaked the psychic powers nicley a shame you have to pay £50 pound for the books but unsupprisingly that is GW marketing for you and we as mugs will buy it so that is my humble opinion
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benc
Rank Trooper
Posts: 47
Games played: 40k Vogen campaign.
Dreadball season 1.
Working on:: Gotta paint before I buy more
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Post by benc on May 26, 2014 8:47:07 GMT
The cards look good too. Not sure how they would play. But I see more than a mad dash for objectives at end game.
Oh, and the challenges. Wounds carry over to unit. "Combatant Slain!"
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Post by Ed on May 26, 2014 12:17:31 GMT
Chaos will be better Mark but only because: 1) Excess wounds caused in a challenge are now carried over onto other models in the enemy unit. Seeing as we are forced to challenge and often with a really choppy Lord or Daemon Prince, this is a good change. 2) All units now score and Troops choices have a new rule 'objective secured' meaning they cannot be contested, unless contested by an enemy Troops unit. This may not seem that great on the surface but it now means we can take minimum Troops and then fill our remaining points with units that actually contribute! It certainly hasn't propelled Chaos to the top of the pile but at least it's something. Daemons on the other hand have become RIDICULOUS with the changes to the Psychic phase. They can take the new Malefic Daemonology discipline and summon new units of Daemons. Due to them being able to spam Psykers and the summoning spell being the Primaris, it's possible to do some truly heinous things, just google '7th edition 40k Daemons Battle Report' to see for yourself. Don't worry though, after experiencing it once you won't be back for more! I don't expect an FAQ to sort it out as it didn't happen when Daemons broke 7th edition Fantasy with their magic dice generation and I find it funny that GW have been here before and chose to ignore it. I do Expect Malefic Daemonology to be banned from tournaments at worst and a cap on Mastery Levels at best. Elly I feel sorry for you, before you even get to try it, the Internet has already declared Daemons to have broken the game and it's hard for any of us to argue otherwise.
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Post by Elly on May 26, 2014 12:32:50 GMT
Knowing how i roll though, ill hurt myself more than spawning new daemons
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Post by Elly on May 27, 2014 10:55:00 GMT
Having played today, i have no idea how some of the batreps have been getting as much summoning on daemons. I played with mastery level 13 boosting my pool and failed to summon anything in the first two turns. Using 3 different attempts from different psykers and 6/7 dice each time. You also now cant really use all the powers you did before and are less likely to get them off so overall psykers seem less powerful.
Mind you this is only from one game
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Post by stuart on May 27, 2014 12:33:49 GMT
daemons after looking at the battle report against greyknights and slaughtering them in a 1500 point game and at the end of turn 4 the daemons had managed to summon 4000 points of daemons onto the table i think i will try daemons once then run away anytime they look at me i cant imagine anything worse than going to a 1500 point game and your opponent summons an army almost 3 times the size of yours it cant be a good game for anyone other than another daemon player but other than avoiding daemons i still like the new rules they just need to control the ammount of dice generated in the phychic phase as daemons can generate 35 in an unbound list
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Post by Elly on May 27, 2014 13:10:07 GMT
True i was bound list with 13 mastery levels in 1500 and i wasnt trying to spam psykers, just playing a variation of my league list. I passed 6 powers in 4 turns, 5 got denied, caused 2 perils to myself. Against 3k of nids with 9 mastery levels. (Had an elder player teamed with me with 4 mastery).
I can see how if you lucky you will get a lot of powers working, and against non psyker it will be hard for the enemy. But if you aren't being a cheese waac player with a spam list it maybe ok. I still cant see how some of reps online have worked and not perilled themselves to death. 40kdamonblog got theirs wrong as only had 20 not 22 dice pool to start, pinks will only be ml1 no matter how many in the unit.
You also cant roll all 3 powers from daemonology as some have to come from change. We house ruled that as pinks couldnt take a brb power before they still xant take daemonolgy too although heralds etc could.
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Post by Elly on May 27, 2014 17:44:42 GMT
FAQ are up! On black library site
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Post by Ed on May 28, 2014 8:50:56 GMT
FAQ's haven't answered a lot of questions though. They did return the Helldrake to its original firing mode, so no more 360 turret firing. Coupled with the changes to Vector Strike, there can be no more complaining about it! I played my first game using Eldar Vs Darryl's Daemons last night. maelstrom missions are pretty good, although some of the objectives are either extremely difficult or actually impossible to fulfill! The psychic phase is pretty rough, very difficult to pull off higher Warp Charges and even harder to nullify, but slots in quite nicely. Definitely an improvement tactically, as having to cast blessings/ maledictions at the start of turns was just rubbish. Psykers get to fire their guns now too! Overall, if you choose not to be a dick, the game plays a bit better and the rules are a lot tidier. My only fear is that people have an excuse to just field broken nonsense and can really abuse this ruleset. I definitely advise that you decide what sort of a game you want to have in advance, otherwise it could be a very hollow gaming experience. I think we should always consider: just because you can doesn't mean you should, don't be a dick and the player acros the table would also like to have fun.
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Post by Ed on May 28, 2014 9:10:39 GMT
Although it is harder to get powers off, it's still possible to have one or two turns of nonsense now and again! We're also back to the 4th edition situation where Daemons outclass the Grey Knights... I didn't really have any problems facing them last night but what I will say is they add another couple of levels of randomness to an already random game. There is a lot of book keeping to be done and they can slow things right down. With the changes to grounding tests the FMC's require a lot more fire power due to snapshots until they're dead and you have to consider if you want to ground them as they'll be able to charge you next turn if they survive, otherwise they need another turn to switch flight modes. Daemons are really down to the player fielding them and whether they care about their opponent's gaming experience. Even with 12-16 WC's, a couple of lucky turns will alter the game dramatically, particularly at 1500pts and below. I'm certainly not rushing to play against them!
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Post by danstrahleo on May 29, 2014 11:49:32 GMT
So from the above it looks like my Daemons may get some more play time - good job I have just finished painting a CSM / Demon army and am finalising the last few units . Anyway as I pieced my way through the BRB i thought I would make notes so people can take a few looks at some of the changes from 6th as there are a few some just tweaks but after my first read I feel they have just corrected some mistakes is all. P19 - 6'' Squad coherency vertically for terrain P22 - Psychic Phase looks like the BIG change for the edition P26 - Nova powers auto hit fliers - don't know if this is a change or not but with most powers having Nova's in them this could be something to use P38 - Gone to Ground units Cannot fire overwatch (Again don't know if this is a change but seems good if you can cause pinning) P52 - Additional wounds caused by Instant Death count to combat resolution (Wonder if I was doing this wrong in 6th) P76 - Vehicles Explodes does S4 damage to people around the vehicle rather then the S3 (But it is harder to explode a vehicle) P84 - Jink changes are a big changer - Jink gives 4+ cover now as standard but forces you to Snap Shoot on the following turn P86 - Chariots - Complete revamp of the rules here and they now look usable! P102 - Excess Wounds caused in challenges are allocated to the squad P103 - A unit not involved in a challenge can place excess wounds caused to the squad onto the challenger - so no longer hiding in challenges!! P108 - Charging through difficult terrain is now a standard -2 inches P108 - Ruins give 4+ cover if your in them no LOS blocking needed now P110 - Buildings have hull points (And not that many) P122 - Battle Forge Armies get good bonuses of Secure Objectives & Reroll WL trait) P125 - Most Warlord Traits seem to be useful no real shockers in the lists P134 - Coring units are now pretty much anything thats not a zooming flier / MC - even claimed Fortifications count as scoring... P150 - New Maelstrom missions look interesting (Stopping the End of Game Obj Rush) P160 - Barrage can direct fie under its minimum ranges (Again not sure if this is new) P163 - D weapons changes looks like they can enter usual 40k battles without a huge unbalance P168 - Move through cover actually works for charges now!! P171 - Sky Fire & Interceptor now forces snap shots against ground targets P173 - Templates cause hits to troops embarked on Open Transports (This is scary for my Orks!) P180 - Grenades in combat can be used against - Vehciles, Gun Emplacements, Buildings & MC's (The list keeps getting bigger) P180 - Defense Grenades seem pretty good now negating bonus attacks Lots of good tweaks - will be interesting to see how 'abusive' people feel the summoning powers are as the games go on but i like the inital look of it all! They have sorted Challenges, reduced some of the Jink issues, added a phase for damage / buffing as old psychic powers just wasn't working, have started moving towards BIGGER GAMES with BIGGER MODELS. Also the way the book is laid out is really helpful with an actual well referenced summary sheet right at the end. Lets see how it plays!!
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Post by Ed on May 29, 2014 12:55:09 GMT
Defensive grenades always denied bonus attacks but now they no longer grant the unit Stealth when shot by a unit within 8", this has been replaced by them being able to be thrown and causing Blind to the unlucky recipients! I agree, the rulebook is nicely laid out and easy ro follow, just a shame it came with the other 2 books that will never be viewed ever beyond the first look. Utterly useless unless you're in love with Ultramarines, especially a certain Dreadnought named Idaeus which could laughably be High Gothic for 'idiot'.
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